Word syllables

[Virginia (Gbug)]

What do you all think about words that sound like one syllable (but are actually two) in poetry? For example, orange, squirrel, crayon...

I took an excellent picture book rhyming webinar through Highlights and they talked about this. My brain just really hears one syllable for these words!! Do any of you hear them as two?? I wonder if this is a geographical dialect difference?

I wanted to use squirrel in something I'm writing, but then I realized it's unfortunately two syllables. 😔

[Vijaya]

Hmmm, avoid them? But if you have a rhyme scheme and a perfect rhyme, then the reader will anticipate how to say it. FWIW, I hear all these as two syllables. or-range (not ornge) sqi-rel (not sqirl) cray-on (how would you pronounce it as just a single syllable? Cron? Not even a little dipthong?)

[Debbie Vilardi]

I have a friend who pronounced crayon as cran. It is a regional dialectic issue. For me, these are all two syllables.

[Virginia (Gbug)]

Hmm...I hear it and say it as "cran."

I find the dialect differences fascinating!!

[kelliebeggs]

I live in the US South, and I say crayon w 2 syllables, but A LOT of people pronounce it crown here.

[HaroldU]

For me, squirrel and crayon are two-syllable words but orange is one. I grew up as a faculty brat on the East Coast but perhaps a key point here, my father was English.

[JulieM]

I'm an Aussie and hear/say all those words as two syllables. It's one of the difficulties associated with publishing rhyming books in different territories.

[Virginia (Gbug)]

Interesting!! I grew up near the Great Lakes. Anyone else?

[Debbie Vilardi]

The friend who says Cran is from Syracuse, NY. Also near the Great Lakes. I'm from NY metro.

[dewsanddamps]

Virginia, I'm a Midwesterner and hear "squirrel" as one syllable but the rest as two.

A few years ago I wrote a rhyming PB ms and was miffed when East Coast beta readers told me my meter was off. Turns out they all read "general" as three syllables and it's two for me. And then there are those nuts who think caramel has three syllables... 

[Virginia (Gbug)]

Lol, I hear caramel as three!!

[dewsanddamps]

Lol, I hear caramel as three!!

Oh, Virginia. 

[Ev]

I'm from Kentucky and squirrel rhymes with 'curl' for me, but the rest are 2 syllables.

And Katie, my husband and I have argued about caramel for 45 years.

[dewsanddamps]

And Katie, my husband and I have argued about caramel for 45 years.

       Ev, my husband and I argue about the Treaty of Versailles.

[olmue]

My mom (from Idaho, age 92) says "cren" for "crayon," but she's the only one I've heard say that. "Orange" definitely has two syllables for me. "Squirrel" has two for me as well, although I guess in running conversation, it does tend to crunch down into "sqwerl." But if I was trying to meter or rhyme any of them, they all show up absolutely as two-syllable words in my mind.

This is definitely one of the hazards of doing rhyme and/or meter in English, though. There are some significant dialectal differences that can really throw these things off if you are trying to work across regions.

I'm definitely in the carmel camp, though!

[Debbie Vilardi]

To me, Carmel is a place. Caramel is a food. (But I certainly hear carmel as the food in a lot of conversations.)

[Ev]

      Ev, my husband and I argue about the Treaty of Versailles.

Katie, if we're talking about pronunciations, you do know, of course, that there's a town about 20 miles from me named Versailles and it's pronounced Versails. Do you and your husband argue about the correct way to pronounce the city?

[David Wright]

My biggest revelation was Australia. If you don't add an invisible 'i' to make it sound like Austrailia then you can understand the aussie accent better

[Pons]

For me, they are all one syllable except for general, which is two. West Coast.

[dewsanddamps]

Katie, if we're talking about pronunciations, you do know, of course, that there's a town about 20 miles from me named Versailles and it's pronounced Versails. Do you and your husband argue about the correct way to pronounce the city?

Sorry, Ev, I missed this earlier. No, we don't argue about the pronunciation. But there are plenty of wacky pronunciations in the Midwest, as you're aware--NeVAYda (spelled Nevada), Iowa; Cairo, IL with a long /a/--the list is lengthy! "Versails" would take some getting used to, though!

[Pons]

I'm west coast and hear all of them as one syllable. I think V is right. If your rhyme scheme is clear enough, people will adapt appropriately.

[AnneB]

there's a town about 20 miles from me named Versailles and it's pronounced Versails

Ohio has a Versails, too, as well as a Marsails, a Mount Peeler and a Terry Hut, leading to occasional hilarity when attempting to discuss Versailles, the frequently mispelled Marseilles, Montpelier, and Terra Haute with out-of-staters. The names are relics of early French settlements in the 1600s and 1700s.

[Debbie Vilardi]

I love the history of place names. Some of the names around here are Native American, but in upstate New York, you can drive through Rome, Mexico, Delhi, Ithaca, Paris, Amsterdam, Geneva, Peru, and Damascus among others.